In this chat, I sit with Tee, a new Android Developer at Airbnb and learn his story into tech through Hack the Hood and the Airbnb apprenticeship program.
https://twitter.com/teesTechJourney
https://careers.airbnb.com/
Episode 89 of this developing story,
you ought to be Douggie here. And, uh, we got another episode. With, uh, someone who's reached out to me directly via LinkedIn, uh, to our mutual connection. Uh, I would say that I've been doing this for a while where I did this podcast, but also this Ben engineer. Uh, and I give my time away for free. Really? No, no real costs.
Other than sometimes I'll ask folks to come on a podcast with me and chat. And as of recent, it's been Twitter spaces. And I think it's very important to kind of understand where people are coming from, uh, as far as their story and how they're getting into tech. Because I think that is, what's usually inspiring, at least for me to hear other folks' stories.
Um, so this, the story of tea tea is actually an apprentice. Uh, he actually just completed. At Airbnb, uh, previously going through a bootcamp, uh, locally and called hack the hood. Um, and yeah, I'm just like really impressed with, uh, having this conversation. I haven't actually chatted with too many people.
Who've completed hack the hood, so it was nice to see the other end of it. Uh, but I also think that his story of being in the bay area and always being around tech, but never in tech is also inspiring as well. So I hope you all enjoy and I'll see you on the other side.
Perfect. Um, so I can start off, um, I will, I'm based in the bay area, but currently I'm in Sacramento, um, just for affordability life purposes, but, um, that's where I started off my journey anyways, and a little bit about myself to answer that question. Uh, my professional journey started, uh, with a program called hack the hood in Oakland.
This. That empowers under-resourced youth of color with knowledge, skills, and relationships for a successful, successful career in tech. Um, that started off with me making like a Weebly Wix site for a small business in that area. And they also, like, we also went to like Tesla, Twitter, and next time. Um, for like some tech trips just to like get out, um, and, and see the railroad after that, I went to a coding bootcamp.
Um, and, uh, actually the name of that one was called coding dojo. And it was like really good, which is why I picked that one and just been trying to like, get in to detect the whole time. And that's back in April when I mentioned shoe, I was still like, just trying to figure out I was in my head space and just really trying to figure out like how it is.
Two since 2018. So it had been like two or three years and it was, it was just a little bit slow for me. And I was just trying to reach out to people and like figure out like how other people did it. Um, and, um, just, just staying curious and, and, and determined. I was able to get a role at Airbnb for their apprenticeship.
And I was successfully completed that around like last month sometime. And now I'm an Android developer at. Wow. That's, that's an amazing journey. And, um, so he says in 2018, he started with hack the hood. Correct. So how did you, w where did you worried about hacking the herd? Like, how'd you how'd you even discover that man, that's a crazy story in itself.
Like, I was literally talking to a coworker at the time and they were like, oh, you're into tech. Uh, this is also 2018, uh, when Bitcoin was around and I was just like, wait, hello, stuff's going on? So, um, I was, we were talking about that and they're like, well, there's this thing, car. I was like, okay. So I checked it out and it was actually like the last day to sign up, um, for that, for that, uh, cohort.
And I like messaged her call to somebody or email, like, Hey, I noticed like the last day or whatever. Um, is it still possible for me to like get on? And they're like, yeah, just try it out. Um, and then I went from there and it was like a really good experience. Yeah. So let's say let's do about just a step before that too, as well.
I'm curious, what were you doing? Before you found hack the hood you're from the bay area? Uh, I assume Oakland or somewhere in the east bay. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. So like what, what sort of jobs were you, uh, you doing before you started learning? How to code is one a better understanding of your background and how you sort of like jumped in?
Yeah, I am honestly, on another note, I kind of always felt like I didn't have a knack for technology, like even building computers and stuff. Even like watching the Facebook movie, it's like, I live in Silicon valley. I grew up here and I don't feel like part of the tech scene. And it's something that kind of like brought me into tech, which is like, that was kind of like the deciding factor that got me to say, you know what, I can do this.
I'm going to do it. Um, but before that I had jobs, I like T-Mobile. Um, and I was also working at, uh, for my, for a lineman company as a lineman, uh, just putting up like, um, internet on poles. Okay, cool. Yeah. I'm literally at the office right now because PG and E is, uh, is actually replacing pullouts out of my house.
Cause I had to go get another spot so I can do this. Right. Because I guess I gotta have internet today. I used to think about getting, um, like the mobile hotspots and stuff and how they would at work, but it's sometimes it's, it's a hit or miss. I actually fun fact wanted to get like an RV and live in there and just live off a hotspot.
That is happening right now. People are doing that. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Actually there's an RV down the street from my house that parks there every day. It's like I live in east Oakland, so right next to the freeway. So it's a very, it's a popular spot. Uh, the park RVs. It's funny. Um, the boating community in Seattle, I noticed too, um, I don't know really, which I want to do RV, but it's like they make it so difficult to have an RV.
Um, and. Like I heard some stories about some dude living in the RV, outside of his tech company and started his own company and became a millionaire. But then like, they don't want people to live in the RVs and like the bay area, they kind of, at least in San Francisco, I know they made it kind of harder.
Um, but I think voting is another option. Um, and in Seattle it was really a. There's a big voting community out there. And it was interesting to see that and how that works out to, yeah. I know a couple of people who got boats up in Berkeley. Uh, actually, I don't know them. I love them. And I don't know if I'm not that, that level yet.
Um, but, um, yeah, let's get back into hack a hack, the hood. So you joined the program, like you signed up, like right before the cutoffs. Uh, you've been, you wouldn't approach. And so I want to actually understand like the, the projects you're working on as well. So you mentioned you built a couple of WIC sites, um, was that what they basically trained you on as, uh, as far as web goes?
Yeah, so they trained us as, as far as that goes just on a, it was using Weebly and it was just building like a whatever drag and drop site to, to make the website. And I learned a little bit of a, like a CS, I guess. I CSS, I guess you could say, um, it's funny. My instructor from. Was my, uh, it was one of the first people to get into the apprenticeship.
And he's the one that showed me how to like, make a border with a div. And I just like the little hello road looked like a shiny border. I thought that was really cool. It was my first experience doing that. And, um, it, it was just a cool extra part that he was like the first person and, um, one of the first cohorts for the apprenticeship and Airbnb, and kind of like laid the path for like, oh, okay.
These, these are. Some of the things we're looking for in people that come from like those type of programs, um, which is also something I learned is that from hack, the hood, is that tech isn't like some giant monster that's just trying to destroy people's lives or whatever you want to call it. But there's like actually a lot of people that are willing to help and actually doing their part to help, uh, Underrepresented individuals.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for my industry, I work my day jobs. I get hubs. So like I constantly get asked like, Hey, what programs or what places that we can make social impact that you could connect us to. And like, this is not my day job. I don't do diversity inclusion. I don't do mentorship at bootcamps. I just happened to like doing it.
So I'll just, I'll get as, uh, as the, uh, the, uh, what do you call it? A prolific writer, a stoop dog says getting when you're sitting. Um, that's literally what I do. It's just like, if I'm, if I got the bandwidth, I'll go in mentor at places like hack the hood or hang out and do events and stuff like that with folks in, uh, Take random DMS.
Like literally I don't, I don't remember who connected us cause you, um, I think you might hit me on LinkedIn first, something like that, but I'm not even sure where our connection was originally made. Yeah. So I was actually. In the middle of, um, the Adobe apprentice, why didn't go to the apprenticeship for Adobe, but I was in their general assembly bootcamp process.
And the instructor from there was part of your community. And he was like, Hey, I think this would really benefit you. Right. Okay. Very cool. Yeah. Now we had a quick chat and I just sort of like set a bunch of ideas. Like, as I do, mostly like anybody gets me on a zoom call and like, yeah. Hey Brian, I want to pick your brain or I'm looking to do my next day.
I just, I'm, I'm a bit of like a, I unload little bunch of ideas on people and, uh, you just pick up whatever you think you could probably handle. Um, so since we talked, uh, you'd hit me up. And you said you were thinking about doing an Airbnb apprenticeship. Um, so like where were you? You had done a couple of different things.
You can talk to the hoods, like where were you at, in life at that point, but also like, uh, what sort of pushed you to make that decision to go with Airbnb? Oh yeah, that's a good, I just felt like it was going to be a better. I don't know what I say experienced, but I just felt like it was going to be better for me.
It was just a better decision at the time to go with Airbnb. Um, where I was at in life, like I said, it was 2018 when I first started. And it's been a while since I was like getting a role that I felt like I had put in the time and effort for, and that kind of goes back to. Again, the foundation of me getting into tech is because like, I, I personally, um, this is like a personal bias or opinion that, um, black and brown folks don't really get hired for their potential.
Whereas other races do, it's more, they experienced that they get hired for it unless they have some sorts of connections. Um, and yeah, so that's, that's, that's. Hi, how I take everything. And, um, I just wanted to like get somewhere in life. I just felt like, dang, I'm doing all this for what it's, it's kinda like when they say like you you're doing, you're still doing good, but then you go through those little down moments in the rollercoaster life where it's like, um, you feel like imposter syndrome.
Right. And, and, and I was spending that heavy at that time. Yeah. And it's the, it's the thing that I struggle with a lot, what I, when I like mentor folks and like get them on the right path. It is a lot of folks. Like the question is like, uh, we didn't, I didn't ask you about, I don't know if you have a college degree or not.
Um, but I get that question a lot. Like, should I go get a degree or should I do this boot camp? Or should I do this or that or whatever. And what I struggle with is like, if you look like me and you're asking me if I should have to get a degree, uh, it really depends on your age. Like if you're 18, 19, my answer is always gonna be.
Because I said, I, the doors that are open just by having the paper, not by that experience, but what what's on the paper to get your foot in the door. Uh it's it's dyed day. And again, I, I don't mind mentioning that tech is not equitable. Like there's not equality everywhere you find tech jobs. Um, so you kind of have to understand how the, how the daily.
Being played. And like, once you figure out how the dance is made, then you can sort of operate in space. But so if you're 18, 19 year old, maybe even like sub 26, Probably get the degree. If you don't have that, like try to find your way we can get the experience, like what you did with the apprenticeship, with hack the hood.
Cause then at least people will close doors before you can even get your resume slip then. But I just want to be a hundred percent real. Like I I'd love to change this, like in a perfect, beautiful picture, but I just try to be more realistic for folks who are listening in that maybe be sitting here in contemplating, either left.
Yeah, I actually did that myself contemplated just when I was in that space, going back to school anyways. Um, um, my wife, for instance, she graduated and she got a job. I, um, had been, um, basically doing, working and trying to like break into tech at the same time while she was in school. I mean, then she, she, she was close to graduating, so I was like, man, maybe I should just go back into school.
Cause, um, just again, I just felt like imposter syndrome or like. I wasn't being seen for what my worth was. And, um, sometimes I still think about that because even if you get a bachelor's like, you don't have to really keep going, but the fact that you can go like, get a master's or PhD later, um, those, those still are very valid and, um, in the community, um, you can still become like a director or a C.
Something, if you, if you have a, just, uh, a bootcamp experience it's possible. But I do think like going through those high level, either level educations definitely do make a change. Yeah. Yeah. This is true. And it's the, um, the one thing that I contemplated, cause I'm not from the bay area, but I started learning how to code like 26, 27 and.
I was actually getting my MBA at the time. So like I have, I've got like the paper under my name, but it's not, it's not it's computer science. Uh, but the one thing I realized being in the bay area, it's like my first couple of years, it's, it's actually similar to getting an MBA where like some of your, the most value get from school is a network.
Uh, cause the other thing I mentioned yesterday, the tech is hiring space. Is that my first job I found that everybody worked at St. One went to the same college and the way that y'all got the job is because they knew somebody. I heard he had the company. And it's the same thing. Like I would imagine if you walk down the halls of Airbnb, the virtual office at this point, uh, it'd be a very similar experience where a lot of folks got the end because they knew somebody that got the resume worked at.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So I wanted to find out more about this and folks who are listening in, like, if you've got questions, we'll probably start asking questions. If you have some thoughts or storytelling you want to share as well in your experience, um, please feel free to request now. Uh, I'll get to get you an a, in a moment, but I wanted to find out from T um, the experience while you're at Airbnb.
So w we got, we got down like what you were doing at hack the hood, but, uh, what were some sort of stuff where you're working on as a apprentice during the. So it was really cool. They, they have, I believe they have it at publicly. Um, the design cause they, like I said earlier, people really are, and there's a lot of people in the industry that we don't want to help.
So, uh, they do a front end, a back end. Um, and this year they did a mobile track, uh, for the first time. Um, so you basically just learning for six months and then I do a team placement and during the team placement, I was on mobile track. Whereas some people might have done back in our front end for instance, and a.
It's still technically in it like an internship, because you're working with the team they've seen, like if they, if, if they, if you guys both align together. Um, but yeah, it was really fun. We did them laughter and um, it was a lot of learning. Um, also some things, if you had a bootcamp, you might not really know how to, um, take notes or like write a design spec or things like that, or just like design out what you're doing.
So there's like a lot of. Things like emailing people and learning how to communicate virtually that I learned along the way. Um, cause I don't have a degree in general. So some of those things that you might have got a degree when you, while you were getting your degree, you learned in school, but, um, um, you didn't have like a CS.
So you went to a bootcamp, you still might have those, those certain, I, you say written communication, um, things. Like the, um, like things like sending an email or I haven't though. I know I learned to like, all the office suites, like was part of my college degree was like learning how to do emails and outlook and, and Microsoft word and et cetera.
So like, did all that stuff you have to pick up eventually? Or did you already have an understanding of that? Uh, well, I already had to understand like sending Gmail and stuff, but more specifically it was, um, like how to communicate while you're sending an email is what I meant. Um, like being very detailed.
Um, and, and in your steps that you're taking to like, even if asking questions right. In providing the steps that you took before you asked a question, um, and then again, like writing a design spec, like, this is what I'm going to be doing. This is the stuff that it's going to take to do this. This might be like technical day.
Um, this might some be some bottlenecks or something that we're waiting on. We. Um, some stuff from infrastructure before, like just finding it out in writing very detailed and, um, uh, visual, uh, visually pleasing. Um, I guess you could say designs before you start working on. Yeah, well, as I was just going to ask, what was the best thing you learned during that experience?
Uh, like even, I imagine you learned like how to ship a Android app or deploy that stuff, but, um, like soft skills wise. Well, this is the best thing you've learned. Uh, during the, uh, apprenticeship experience. I don't really, uh, I don't necessarily have something that's I would say it's super, super, um, like I'm just remembering off the top of my head, but I will say, like, it just goes back.
The fact that there's a lot of people that are willing to help, um, uh, especially if you're just starting out and you're kind of nervous about reaching out to people. I would say, just make sure you really, um, just get that out your head and you're going to, it's actually better that you reach out and ask a bunch of questions and ask them questions.
Um, just as long as you don't ask the questions over and over again, you're fine. But don't think of anything as a dumb question because you're still learning. I would say that's like the biggest. Um, that. Yeah. I mean, one thing I learned pretty early on, because I had, I had some like word experience before I was 27 when I got my first tech job as an engineer.
Um, so I, I knew how to do all the soft skills and stuff like that. But the one thing I learned really quickly is like asking questions early, uh, is better than like waiting until you're actually like you're blocked for hours or even days. Uh, cause I'd get stuck on a feature. Dave does not know where to like where to go next.
Um, but, uh, the thing that I learned and I learned this from actually a good hub engineer, like years ago, uh, before I even worked at get hub, he had mentioned that if you open a PR early, like as soon as like you, you get to spec, you start writing the feature, uh, before you start writing a feature, open up the PR with like your first commit, uh, and then start from there, like your commit.
It could be a comment of like, this is where I think it's going to go. Um, but the beauty of that is like your team members that are this sort of like looking for random stuff to read or looking at Reddit or Twitter, because it has some downtime Doble. They can look at all the open PRS and like jumped in there and ask questions and ping you on slack.
Uh, but when you do it in silence, without opening up the PR pushing your branch up, like no one knows what you're doing until you push it up, especially nowadays when we're all remote. Well, I, I definitely agree with that. And I also do want to have some. I put a lot of time and effort into like, get into where I am and I'll say, like, that came just from me consistently believing in myself.
Um, and I say that because I think, um, you can have confidence in yourself, but I also feel like you should like put the competence and, um, how do you say it? Like have the confidential outwardly, and even if you do have those self doubt days or whatever, I would say just anyone that wants to. Break into tech or if they're just starting out long, like a junior level where something just continue to have that, that belief in yourself, because you have to like, keep yourself moving.
And just find a way to, to keep that going. Yeah, that's awesome. And, uh, I just want to shout out if anybody's got any questions. Uh, if you have any stories that you wanna share about imposter syndrome or your first job or the job you're hoping for, uh, this is time that this is now the time to ask questions.
So I just want to shout out Brandon, the chemo results here. Fred man, it's been a minute. I hope you're doing well. I don't know if you're back in the bay area, back in Texas. Uh, Jesse, thanks for showing up, John, shout out to you having the meeting with get lab. Um, and then, uh, Camilla, I see you down the, down the list too as well.
So yeah, if y'all got questions, uh, comments, uh, please request and I'll bring you up. Um, but yeah, T you're, so you're now in, uh, Sacramento, uh, you had mentioned for, um, budgetary reasons, uh, cost of living. Uh, yeah, I'm curious. You'd try to make it back over here to the day. Um, now you have a engineer salary.
Yeah, definitely. I'm trying to do that. I don't know when exactly it is going to be, because there's just a lot of stuff going on still. Um, Airbnb is their office open right now. It is, it is open to people that, um, how do you say it? Like the living, if they need to basically, I don't know. I got the exact wording they use.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. If you don't have a office space, I imagine they're all. I mean, if you, I don't know if you've been to the office, but it's, it's. Nah, I've never been to the office while I really want to. Yeah. So they had like, uh, like what do you call it? The Santeria designers go through each space and make it look like an Airbnb based on different cities.
So they got like on the second floor where the coffee shop is. It's like, looks like Brooklyn and they've got all the street names. And I think, um, it had spike Lee. I mean, tech companies, they got too much money, but it had like spike Lee coming through. And donate stuff, uh, for the space. Um, but yeah, that place is unreal.
No, I can imagine. And that's what they almost like. Yeah. That's what they do. So I could only imagine like all the extra stuff they put into that. Uh that's really? Yeah, that's really cool. I think I've seen some pictures, but I don't, I don't really know anyone talking about like what it actually looked like.
I do know that I've been remote since I started my career off. So it's just like a norm to me at this point. Yeah, which is wild because, um, yeah, I mean, I obviously I've been, I'm in the office right now, uh, at GitHub and, uh, but I've been, I've always been pro remote. I I've never gone to the office like five days a week.
I've always, at least had a remote day and the night was, turned it up till 11, uh, once the pandemic hit. But I'd be curious to like, I mean, just this, darn this out there for anybody who wants to comment on this, I don't know if we're going to go back to like that requirement to. This be in the office, um, and collaborate that way because now everybody's so used to figuring it out.
I will say though. Um, I do, I did do like, um, my first job was technically remote. I had an internship for like a sales engineering role and it was remote because you didn't really need to be in the office to do some of that stuff. But, um, I do know on that side, it's, it's better to be in person. And gaining like religion and doing like relationship building stuff, especially with customers.
So some people do, I could see like the push for, for needing to be in person at some places. Um, but I also was curious, what do you think about like boot camp grads and, um, the term like the turnover rate? I don't know if it's turnover rate, but basically them getting into like jobs afterwards, because I do see like a lot of boot camps with their numbers, but I do see like a lot of other people that take a boot camp and it's been like a year or so.
Got a roll. I don't, I was trying to game plan, like a way to give you blend to text. I mean, to companies like right after the bootcamp, um, for instance, like, uh, like a company that, um, deals with bootcamps and then they basically sit and they have their own company, but that company had hired. Contract workers are like full-time workers.
I guess you can have mentors in there too, but I meant like the, so like basically the people from the bootcamps, they worked for this, this company, Hey, we'll call it company a and then company B is like, um, Airbnb or up for example. Right. And so company, company B um, high-risk company and those people are coming straight from bootcamp.
So it's like a, uh, a tunnel. Yeah. Yeah. Kinda like a, um, uh, like a staffing agency. Uh, like kind of like consulting. So like my first job out of college was actually to doing, um, sales, operations, and I was a temp, basically temp agencies. Um, and it's similar structure. Um, but yeah, to answer your question, what, I think I know a ton of people who have been struggling and then, um, uh, we had I'm in jumpy, pop you up while I'm talking.
Uh, but I don't tend to, people are struggling during the pandemic to, uh, essentially get a job. After or during bootcamp? My thing is, um, you've got to set yourself up for success, uh, and I don't think he can lead on to bootcamp. I know we've got some bootcamp, people represented, uh, in the listenership too as well.
If you have any comments, but. If you're in a community, are you showing up to spaces? Are you on a discord? Like that's where you can basically leverage getting your head? Has I mentioned earlier with like everybody being from the same college and my first job in San Francisco, like that's where you, you got to start.
Um, and it's going to be, it's always gonna be a struggle because you don't have an experience. So there are ways to get experience while you're. Looking for a job. And then sometimes the challenge is like, you can't get experienced while you're doing a hundred applications. So my recommendation is do 20 applications, but look for open source contributions.
And like, I could literally point you to a bunch of places. Um, and I could point to anybody that a bunch of jobs, the challenge that I have is that how much investment am I going to put into you versus how much investment are you putting in yourself? So it can become, if you come to me and say, Hey, And that's it.
I don't really have a lot of time to invest in people. Uh, but if you came in and say, Hey, I've actually talked to this, I joined this meetup. I stopped. I spoke at this conference. Um, like it shows me you're doing stuff I'll give you. I'll give you leads all day, every day. Um, so we only, I guess I added you up here as a speaker.
Do you have any, a question or comment? Yeah, I did. Uh, um, so I had a question for T, um, you'd mentioned that you were. I guess is Airbnb your first official position. Okay. Um, so I, I guess my question doesn't apply. The question I was going to ask is I'm seeing as Airbnb is a pretty large company. Uh, what have you, have you had any experience with like smaller companies and what was the difference that you saw between the two?
Um, I had, uh, when, when experienced, I was doing a JavaScript role for a smaller company and I was doing Brandon and back. I noticed some people went from the developers on that team to become like product managers, for instance. And they were still coding. And, um, that's something I think a lot of people say about startups is you have to wear a lot of hats.
Um, so you could be doing a lot of things that your role doesn't really call for, but the company needs at the time, um, that that product manager, uh, Um, or you could just be doing a lot of different things besides coding that the company needs. And it could potentially, like, if you're looking to do something else, you could, like, you had a small company and due to the developing work, but they might be like, Hey, I want to do do this extra thing because I'm kind of interested in see how it works.
And they're like, say, okay, we, we need people to do that anyway. You can go ahead and do it as well. Gotcha. And, uh, just a comment towards what you were saying about before about like having company a work flight, uh, effectively, or you're hired under company a, which likes your, your, your staffed out to company B.
Um, there are companies that do that. Now. I know I lived down in Florida and over at one point had a partnership with. Um, a bootcamp down here for like the best effectively, the best graduates. Um, they would then get hired out to, to the Uber office down here. Um, I, I know there are some staffing agencies that try and do it.
Uh, the, the big problem most of them run into is that they don't have the, um, they don't have the talent assessment skills to figure out who was good and who isn't. So the, the company like Uber or Airbnb ends up doing. Um, if more companies were like staffing agencies were better at doing that, you would see a lot more of that work getting, getting done.
No, I definitely agree with you. Um, and that's like a thing that I was like, there's something, some things that you have to think about too, but I do know, um, it's kind of the reason why I initially thought about it was because there's like a lot of technical debt and bugs that are really small. Um, and it just becomes, I even read online and, and just on LinkedIn and stuff where people get overwhelmed with like the bug debt that they have, or like some, um, accessibility.
Bugs or any other types of things. That's just like, I have all this other stuff to do. I'm getting overwhelmed. So I think like those lower end stuff would be perfect to just, um, have those like staffing agency, um, uh, developers do is, is just get those, those down so that they can get some experience even being in a company and get more comfortable.
That's that's kinda where, like, that, that comes from for me, because I know like if you hire people to do like big talk big tasks, um, like you said, it's, it's hard to find people who. Okay. All right, that's it. And, uh, y'all follow a T on Twitter. T's checked journey. I'll be in the show notes and also follow me on Twitter at
If you're interested in joining me for these Twitter spaces, all you do is follow me, hit the notifications, and you'll get notified whenever I go live on a space. Uh, and then my DMS open. If you're interested in chatting about getting in the tech about your next step and tech, I'm always happy to have a conversation.
So, um, with that, I'll see you next time.