This Developing Story

TDS 92 - Tech is Hiring

Episode Summary

In this episode, I chat with Full Stack Engineer & Founder of @TechIsHiring

Episode Notes

https://twitter.com/Chad_R_Stewart

Episode Transcription

Episode 92 of this developing story.

 

what's up. Y'all it's  and I've got another conversation to share. Uh, and this one is actually another Twitter space. Uh, if you haven't caught on yet twitter.com sites, be Doug EO. Join us live. We could ask questions and interact. And today we've got Chad, our Stewart. Chad is a developer in Jamaica. He spent some time working on industry in the states, uh, but now currently looking for work.

 

And while he's been doing that, he's organizing a community on Twitter called tech is hiring. So if you looking for jobs, check out the tech is hiring hashtag as well as the tech is hiring Twitter account on Twitter. Hope you enjoy, and I'll see you on the other side. Okay. Um, so I I'm Chuck Stewart. Uh, I'm a software engineer.

 

Um, in Kingston, Jamaica. Um, so how I got here is pricking muddied, um, in the United States. Uh, I actually, anybody remembers the art institutes. Um, I went to the art Institute. Uh, Fort Lauderdale for at the time, it was called multimedia design, which is a fancy way of saying web design. And so I, I studied that, um, graduated and, um, was doing freelancing for, for some time.

 

And, um, I wasn't necessarily the biggest fan of web design. It's a lot more. It's pretty much a UI UX, uh, for, for, I guess, the current terminologies. And so I kind of moved away from it to do, um, to go back to school. Uh, I went to school, uh, at Nova Southeastern university and got a software engineering degree, which essentially is a computer science degree with like learning agile and testing and stuff like that.

 

Instead of more. You know, intricates, uh, computer science concepts. Got it. So would it be like a bootcamp, like the equivalent of what would they're doing at boot camps now? Um, could you, could you elaborate a little bit, I mean, like, so you mentioned you got a software, uh, or web development degree. Um, which is not a common mode, no more.

 

It's like computer science and all the sort of, uh, how it all works. Uh, with bootcamps similar, you go to the bootcamp for what, six, 12 weeks, six months, or whatever it is, and the practical knowledge on how to build either websites or servers or game development or whatever it is. So you've got, you've got the practical knowledge of how to build stuff out of the program.

 

That's correct? Yes, yes. Yes. I mean, it was still like a bachelor's degree program, but yeah, we, we, we got, um, practical knowledge. In fact, um, one of my more interesting projects that I did was. Um, at the, at the school, um, just learnt a lot about agile and learned a lot about, um, working on teams and stuff like that.

 

I really enjoyed that project. Funny enough. I was kind of thinking back on, on my days there and because I was having this discussion earlier with a friend of mine and I was just really happy about like, it's not necessarily a school that's particularly no. For software engineering at the time. I don't know what it's kind of culture is like, no, just happy to have been there at that time when there were particular teachers there that were, that, that kind of pushed me to learn a lot more about software engineering.

 

I just kind of changed how I thought about just, just programming and engineering and stuff like that. I, I really enjoyed my time. Yeah, very cool. So how long ago was, was this, um, this program? Um, so I graduated at the end of 2017, so I would guess that's three years now. Okay. Got it. Okay. Yeah. So you've had some time, I guess.

 

So, so what have you been doing since. Um, so after waited, I returned to Jamaica, um, and I worked a little bit, uh, I ended up working at one of the largest banks care for, for those who are Jamaica and it would be a NCB, a national commercial bank, Jamaica, and I was working on, um, their credit card origination team, uh, learnt a lot with.

 

Um, learnt a lot about kind of front end. And that's actually, during that time is when I got, you know, kind of started with the, the, the Twitter, the tech Twitter journey. That's when I started learning that there was a lot of people on Twitter that was, you know, had a very strong developer community here.

 

Um, but yeah, uh, I left in early. Um, 2020 with the intention with other plans. And then the pandemic is like, what other plans? And yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. So then now you're, you're in Jamaica and then you've been just chilling out for the time being, I guess, uh, in a sense I'm chilling out, you know, I'm trying my best, not to say Maxine relaxing uncle, you know, and, and.

 

Just kind of growing as a, as an engineer, you know, like I, the weird thing about the pandemic for me is that, um, it put, it pushed a lot of people online and a lot of people to use zoom and so on and so forth. And so like one of my things, something that I've been kind of. Searching for, for an extended period of time is just kind of like a, a community of people to, to kind of learn and grow with.

 

Like there there's a community here, but you don't see it here. As in Jamaica, you don't see them as much. And at the time there weren't there weren't a lot of you just didn't have like nearly as many events as you would have. Yeah. You know, like saying, um, bigger tech, uh, tech community. Um, so the pandemic pushed a lot of people online and.

 

My ability to network. Like I didn't have to physically be in these places to network with people. Granted I've learned that technically, that w that's still true, even if there were, if people weren't online because you know, tech of tech, Twitter. Has a lots of people that engage with it all the time, but you know, like I was able to, to, to, to meet a lot of people, you know, like yourself, I, I met a lot of people from, uh, virtual coffee.

 

I, I was, you know, I was a few, one of the first few people about that virtual coffee. I, I remember you speaking with Becca earlier. And yeah, like, ah, just was able to, to, to meet a lot of cool people, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's um, you know, the pendant and it's something that I I've been thinking about a lot in the, I think at the time that it depends on the kid and we all stopped traveling.

 

We all sort of stopped going to work. I was traveling a ton and I was already super engaged with the San Francisco tech committee and then like some various other ones. Spend time in like Florida and, uh, well specifically Tampa and the interesting thing, it's how my network has sort of expanded outside of that.

 

As people moved away from San Francisco or online events happened, I felt pulled more and more into these things like virtual coffee, which I've never attended, but I have a feeling that Becca and Nick who's also participate in that stuff like that. Like I've been pulled into those different communities.

 

Um, and I found that super helpful, um, for me. I haven't really been, I haven't looked for a job. Um, for awhile, I've been happy with the format, but for other things like doing like open sauce or a connecting on different technologies and stuff like that, I found it extremely accessible. Um, because you get to show up, like right now, everybody's sitting there hanging out with us.

 

You show up to this, learn about your story. What about my story? And now you have a connection place that maybe you weren't aware of. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that I'm pretty, um, to be honest, I'm pretty happy about like, having that be a thing now, even though I'll just do the pandemic kind of sucks, but what kind of dependent, but like having kind of being able to move outside of.

 

Have, you know, your kind of circle to, to learn about like different areas, to be honest with you. Like, I've learned a lot about, about tech by engaging with people on tech, Twitter, but you know, I've been kind of trying to learn a lot about tech and I just didn't know where to look and. Um, what is it? Uh, I guess there's a, there's an old saying where chance favors the prepared.

 

And I would say that I, I'm not, I'm not saying that like I'm necessarily benefiting from that particular same, but I feel like w my own growth kinda came, came from that, you know, like just kind of happening upon tech, Twitter, having like all of these circumstances. You know, like where before I just wasn't, I just didn't know where to kind of where to, where to kind of go, you know, like I, you know, I attended a lot of events when I was in Florida.

 

I attended a fair amount of events and I mean, unfortunately I had to leave and you know, when I came here, it was some time before I was able to. I attend a lot of events again, but like, I'm just, I guess I'm just kind of happy that I was able to, to, to, to meet so many meet so many people and just be so, so much more aware of, of just kind of everything in tech.

 

No, that like, I've, I've talked to so many people I've, you know, I've engaged with, with, with tech is hiring so much, you know, I, I like learned a lot. I learned about a lot of different people in lots of different things. And I'm just happy about that. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, yeah. Um, I'm happy that you're, you're happy as well that you sort of connecting through, uh, the community and stuff like that, but I'm curious your, I mean, you started taking hiring and I, can we, I actually just talk about the, the hashtag it's sort of the story behind that and sort of how you just put that.

 

Oh, so it's kind of a funny story of what I guess I have to start with what had happened was

 

so, uh, I, you know, I kind of been looking for, for work for some time. And, um, what I've noticed is that, um, you can send like a tweet out and. It's kind of like a crapshoot, whether or not it goes viral or not. And you're essentially kind of betting on the tweet going viral so that you're, so that effectively your next employer, quote unquote, will see it.

 

You know, you, you spark up some form of relationship and, you know, that turns into a job opportunity. Um, so I, I was actually retweeting things and. No, I, obviously, I won't say obviously, but a lot of people were retreating, like, you know, job hunting tweets, um, whenever they came across them. But like, there were times where like, oh, I'm looking for a job.

 

And I have been doing my own job search would have come across a bunch of opportunities and I'd go and sit there and kind of compile them and like, Hey, you know, I hope this helps, you know, but, um, I, I, like I said, I've noticed that, um, That, how was it? Yeah. I've noticed that when you tweeted, like it's, it's a, perhaps you, the tweet does well.

 

And so one day I just asked the question, Hey, you know, is there a central place where for tweets to go, because it seems kind of silly that we're all effectively tweeting into the ether and, you know, so people were just like, oh no, there isn't a place. And I was like, okay. And I kind of intended to just keep moving on, you know, just doing my own thing.

 

And somebody actually asked me, um, and I was like, oh, so you're gonna, you're gonna make that community. Right. And I was just like, well, I guess I am now. So I took the time to do like, choose a name. Um, took a time to choose a name. I actually ran a poll and another name one, but I realized that that name, the hashtag I'm too, to have people using it.

 

Um, they weren't using it often, but it wasn't enough to deter me from, from using it. And to be quite honest, actually likes the tech is hiring name a little bit more. And so I launched, I believe, large quote on quote in April. Um, and since then I was like, okay, I have a space effectively for people to put things.

 

Um, but there's no incentive for that person, for that, for people to put anything there because there's nothing there. So I'm going to go, go with. And I'm just going to share them on until I can convince enough people to the sky. You kind of start doing this, um, on their own. And I've effectively been doing that consistently for the last seven months.

 

Um, so like pretty much I have like something on my schedule of that at three, you know, I go and I just look up tweets. I have like some search terms here. Well, not here, but I have some search terms that, um, that I use. And, um, and yeah, like I just go through them. I look at tweets and, you know, I'll, I'll ask the person if they mind, if I retweet, uh, if I retweet their, their hashtag and I retweet their tweet with the hashtag and you know, that's pretty much it.

 

Do you get any, do you ever get any pushback? Because I always see those tweets. So yes. Does anybody ever said no, I'd rather not have this. There. Yes. I've gotten some push, not too often. Like if I were to give it a percentage, I would say 98 to 99% of the tweets that get replied to, because that's another number or 99% of the tweaks that get written replied.

 

Absolutely. Please share it. Or, you know, some, some version of, yes. Um, I have gotten pushed back and to be quite honest, it's the reason why I, um, I continue to ask, um, I actually remember, I don't want to blow them up online, but I remember the first person who actually gave me pushback and it just kind of was that cause, so the reason why I ask is it's, it's a personal thing about respecting people's space.

 

You know, and so I just want to give them the opportunity to, to, you know, oh, you know, I've had several people say, oh, you should come up with some form of AI that looks for job searching tweets. And it's like, yeah, I could do that. But I don't, I, it just doesn't sit well with me to just kind of retweet somebody else's thing though, to be fair, I could do the same thing and just ask the question as the end goal, as opposed to just retweeting it.

 

But it's really important to me that people get the opportunity to, to opt out. I've had maybe like maybe 10 people or in 10 in the, in this entire time. I said, you know, no, they'd rather not engage with, with, uh, with a hashtag. And, but like those 10 people it's, it's important that I honor those 10 people's requests than it is to just calm, you know, just pump out, you know, tweets.

 

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I totally understand why maybe there's 10 people said no, I'd rather not, because I think there there's like, um, I guess I'm not a misnomer, but maybe there's this, uh, expectation of how you share your job requirements. Sorry. Sorry. Your job recs. Uh, and mainly because I I've been at two different companies that have been remote friendly, and every time we, we put up like a junior role, like we get 10,000 applications, that's an exaggeration we're like at thousand applications.

 

Uh, and then it makes it really hard to actually choose the best person because you're looking through it that. Applications. Um, so usually usually what happens, especially even the roles that I know that can get up hires for is word of mouth is the best way. And I know there's some people I've actually went and sat with my lash, Twitter space.

 

Folks are like, oh yeah, I applied to a thousand jobs and, uh, you'll get one of them. And I find, I just, I have a hard time. Encouraging that behavior of applying to a thousand jobs, because yes, there, the law of averages, you will get a role. But the challenge is that you get to find a thousand roles. Uh, so then it becomes sort of, you're not putting your best foot forward if you're applying to a thousand places.

 

But with what you're doing is by sharing through word of mouth, Hey, this hashtag is going to tweet out specific like jobs that are looking to hire. Then now you have a connection. And if it's a, if it's a regional. Of someone tweeting out the job, then you have someone to reach out to at that company to make that connection.

 

And like, I I'm, I'm a big fan of shooting your shot. So like, if you, if you see the person tweet, ask them, like, if you can have 15 minutes or if they can look at your resume and ask it and see if they can tell you if there's something missing, working on skill, or you can give an interview, hopefully, you know, I'm really happy.

 

You kind of. All of that. Um, even, you know, you mentioned word of mouth and all of a sudden in my head, I was thinking pretty much tech is hiring is word of mouth as a service. If that makes any sense, I'm like, that's kind of like the thing that I really want tech is hiring. Become, um, because I, I there's been discussions or discussions.

 

I I've had a few people suggest that I make a job board because it seems like the most practical thing. Right. And I completely agree in a sense. Um, but like for me, it's really important and it's one of the reasons. Also partly the reason why I take the time to kind of go and search personally and retweet personally, is that it's about the personal connection, which I, I personally think is, is a big lacking issue in just hiring in general is like, so like, Uh, if you were to go on LinkedIn, you know, like you go and you apply to a job and you may talk to a recruiter, but that, you know, like you may not necessarily be, like you said, you may not necessarily have that personal connection.

 

You know, the recruiter wants to fill the role. You know, but you don't necessarily have like somebody on the inside for exactly how you described. Like that's, that's something that tech is hiring can provide and something that I kind of want to lean into more moving forward. I'm not going to, um, I'm not going to pretend.

 

I honestly did not think about this until recently. I didn't think about that. That benefit that tech is hiring had where effectively you have, uh, uh, uh, uh, contact in, in the, in the company that you're shooting for. But yeah, like it's, it's really about that personal connection in, in, in, uh, uh, let me see in, in like a type of industry that.

 

You know, he's devoid, it feels kind of devoid of that. And that is just more like just hiring it's just hiring just seems to be a little bit less personal nowadays. Yeah. And it can be too as well. Cause I get, um, it's, it's weird for folks who are in like in roles for a couple of years. Uh it's like this weird sort of chasm, the cross where you've made it.

 

So. Every company that you've heard of has chatted with me about trying to work at their company. And like, it's, I'm a sound like people are coming from where they're just trying to get their first foot in the door. And I'm over here getting like left and right and center, like pitches to join the company and do the Dooney and have process and even like new process.

 

Cause, uh, I think people need to understand that that's also. Like once you get to a certain level, you don't have to interview the same way everybody else left interviews. Uh, and I just have to be at director level and above. So that's kind of how the pitch happens for me. A blur I'm getting at is I would love to redirect this energy.

 

We really need that energy, which is why I want to do spaces using this hashtag. I want to help what you're doing and promote you as an individual looking for work, because I need that energy to get points. Into a positive direction or to me where I had this basically to say, thanks, but no thanks. Um, and the more, and the other thing is about this is, um, I I've, I've shared my story with you and other people who've who follow me and heard me on podcasts.

 

Like I've actually never applied to any job I've got. Um, since, since I learned how to code and the way I did that, I did that networking thing and I'd had a blog post and I made connections and it made it easier for me to, even though I still applied to jobs, none of those shops, I got the jobs I did get with the places that I had, like some sort of foot in the door.

 

Uh, and again, I think the word is hiring. Um, avenue is a really interesting one because you can get your foot in the door just by sitting in these spaces and like, Everybody who's listening. I where he'd get hub. So like, if you have questions about where I was at get hub, I'm more than happy to answer them.

 

And if I, for whatever reason, uh, well, actually I know why, because I worked at Netlify notifies blowing up right now. I get tons of DMS about company culture. And LFI the five specific roles. I know if I, and because I keep in touch with Netlify like, I can answer those questions. Cause I know all the managers there as well.

 

And, and same thing with some other companies that I have friends that like, I can answer some questions about rural people interested in. Yeah. Like even though it's kind of funny you, well, I won't say it's funny, you mentioned that it's interesting that you mentioned that. To be honest, I've been, by the way, I, I, you know, I say this all the time and I, I constantly send you thanking you all the time and I just really thank you for your S you know, for supporting the Ash diet.

 

I really do. And I mean, even this, like thanks so much. Um, but, um, it's kind of interesting that you bring that up where it's like you have effectively all of this attention. From companies from recruiters, in essence, you're getting all of this attention and you you're thinking of redirecting it. And like, for me, like the reason why I started the hashtag was not necessarily.

 

To, to, to, to, to share jobs. You know, my, my intention was to share people looking for, for work, you know, that was the original, that was the original, um, fading that I wanted to solve. And I do that. Um, I do that on occasion, but I just find that there are more job opportunities than people asking for work for whatever reason, you know, but I, you know, now that you're mentioning that I definitely would like.

 

The floor, like building relationships with other people who kind of have, who kind of have that thought, that same thought process you have, you know, where it's like, oh, I I'm getting opportunities left and right. You know, I would love to be able to kind of redirect that energy to people who, who don't have, who don't have a lot of opportunities, like a lot of the kinds of work that I, so I want to support.

 

I want to support like juniors, um, trying to, to, to get roles because they're really having a hard time right now. And it's kind of weird because if I, on paper, I was a junior, like a year ago. Um, and that was because of assault of myself, where I was just not talking about a lot of the, I wasn't talking about a lot of the experience that I had, you know, and then somebody had been like, Hey, why don't you talk about more of your freelance experience?

 

And as. Freelance experience. I completely forgotten about this came from my art Institute days. I had done a fair amount of freelancing. And then, you know, I put, I put my freelancing experience on and I had a lot more, um, I have a lot w looked on paper, like I had a lot more experience. And because of that, I was getting a lot more people, at least willing to talk to me.

 

Like there were periods where I went months, you know, previously without. Without getting a, uh, without getting a callback, like just the longest time. And I don't want to, I just, it makes me kind of. I feel for, for, for, for people who are in junior roles, who can do the work and they're struggling, you know, they're struggling to, to, to, to, to get to the other struggle.

 

They're struggling. Whereas like there in the United States, I'm in Jamaica, I'm trying to get like an overseas role. And so there's that international element that I have to cross, but they're effectively in. You know, even if it's only remote, they're effectively in a place where there, there is more opportunities yet they're still struggling.

 

And I would like to support them in any way I can. And I mean, support them either through information, support them through hiring as a platform, just however I can, you know? Yeah. And in here's the thing, here's the thing I would've mentioned in up with. Uh, so last week I did a space, um, When the D I guess might've been last week or the week before I just space and basically just put out, Hey, I'd be willing to do contract work for anybody.

 

Who's willing to work with Astro and react. And, uh, I did that one for a couple of different reasons. Um, I know that I know the creator of Astro, uh, and I know the team pretty well. Um, and I wanted to build a project faster. Uh, so Astra being like the static site generated, you can embed different Capone, react components and stuff like that into it.

 

Like what, after it is really this. Um, but I wanted to actually pull people in with the whole react angle I wanted to actually, I already built the app. I wanted to basically get someone to work on converting it from next JS two to Astro basically is what I was getting at. Um, some work I probably could have done like an evening or an afternoon or whatever.

 

Uh, but I wanted to make that connection to somebody, uh, to contribute as project, like basically make a new friend. And I think what a lot of. Like my goal. And some of you are followed me. Like I talk about open sauce, which is my side project. Like my whole goal for that is I would love to point 500 people to an open source projects and make contributions to that.

 

Now those contributions could be contributions that like a. Um, free contributions, pay contributions, whatever the question is, but you can get a skill set on your resume. And what I've done is I've, since Chad has added you back up, cause I saw you, you, um, you bumped out Twitter. Yeah, no worries. The, what I was getting at is sense that that tweet asking for people for Astro project, I've gotten three con contributors.

 

Um, That have contributed this project, uh, which is, I think it's kind of amazing because most people aren't familiar with Astro or have ever built anything with Astro. But if now we've got three new people familiar with this open-source project, uh, not with the broader open source committee. And that's what I kind of want to do.

 

Like when you look at like Redwood JS or you look at all these other JavaScript frameworks, like the ones that are doing well, or the ones that have a lot of backing behind it, like the like Facebook or Metta, uh, with react and, uh, I'm just kinda blown away on how many people do. Rose their hand jumped in and Eric contributing and have expertise.

 

They provided this project. That's probably going to get a lot of use, um, um, in the future. Cause I think I'm pretty confident this, this idea I have, which is, um, hot, open sauce is going to be a pretty decent, decent idea. Um, so I want her to ask, is there, like outside of, I know you, you, you try to promote open source.

 

Um, like just people kind of delving into open source directly through, you know, your own network and you know what you say, and like through opensource, but is there any other mechanism for promoting, um, because it, the way you talk about it, it seems like unless you are like a react JS or like just a popular open source project, it's it seems.

 

Uh, it's kind of difficult for people to, to, to find like these more obscure, um, open, open. Yeah. Yeah. And it's um, so I think it comes down to open source. I, I, I can only talk about open source from when I've been using it, like actively, which is in the last 10 years, open source is usually builds a cool.

 

And then other people find it cool enough that it gets some popularity or it's sort of stagnant and sits like within your repositories or get hub or whatever other get Virgin patrol system, um, our platform. And I think the, the projects that do very well are the JavaScript projects because of the hype and buzz that set sits around JavaScript.

 

So JavaScript, and this is similar to PHP projects. Um, but JavaScript kind of has it's it's, it's still on the rise, uh, and you see this with rust as well and go, but what I'm getting at is like just the sort of, they're getting more people into tech or more people building small projects or founding companies, or, you know, messing with their IOT devices.

 

Um, that is kind of what we're, open-source really thrived. But on the flip side, like when you look at Metta Facebook and react, or if you look at all these other like libraries that are attached to large companies, it's become a recruiting tool. Uh, and one thing that I try to point out, and I know that Facebook people taking out on, maybe I'm saying this wrong, but when I got to react back in 2015, um, There was like react.

 

There was a Webpack had just come out. There was an apple, which also had just been, uh, kind of getting more adoption because of the whole ESX conversion that everybody was doing. Um, so around that time, everybody who was in the sort of react ecosystem that you kind of see today that would be building this projects, they were hiring all the react apps or sorry, all these JavaScript devs.

 

And they were joining the react team or the Facebook team to work on this stuff full time. Um, and it, it became sort of like this interest. Facebook space could pretty much hire anybody they wanted. Uh, cause they were paying well and they were just convincing people to be open source full-time. And you had where at the time, which is funny, cause like Facebook did this as well with the sort of social network thing.

 

Like there were other social networks prior to Facebook, but they decided kind of figured out the adoption and how to like own the curve that people just use Facebook forever. So the same thing for react, I think. I was using angular at that time. And I were using backbone and jQuery and reaction to this.

 

And people are cycling through all these, these front end frameworks and moving onto the next one. Like every other project in react was like the one people stuck with. And I think the reason for that is because they kept it open and they hired a bunch of people and we all respected. Uh, and we all respected them.

 

So like we gave it a chance because like the first time I saw react at the FAA conference, when they announced. Uh, I remember sitting in with my engineering team, like at our desk and a one person's asset, like watching the car, we all laughed at the idea of Facebook creating a JavaScript library to D view components, uh, our view templates, because at the time we were using jQuery pretty heavily, like not even angular.

 

And, um, and, um, so anyway, fast forward to answering your question, uh, and like responding to that comment is I'm a big fan of like, helping. Projects get adoption without the need of something like a Facebook to, to drive that adoption and sort of own that curve. So if somebody is smaller projects like Astro, I feel like that's going to be a big.

 

Um, I like it enough that I don't mind promoting it and talking about it on stage or doing YouTube videos on again. So like I would appoint more contributors to Astro and grow that community, uh, just because for fun. And when you get Astro or react on your resume and you're working with a team or the project that I'm maintaining, cause I'm a, I'm a known property within open source.

 

Then that's a different conversation than if I just built it to do. And now I want a job like that. That's a harder conversation. Or like when you found that with your freelance work, like you have another angle or another dimension to your experience that you can add. And that's what I'm trying to do with other folks with open source.

 

Yeah. I definitely me personally, I definitely need to promote open source a little bit more. Um, it's funny. Cause were I was talking about that in my own space. Yes. They're not necessarily open source, but just kind of how to, to, to, to grow as a, as a engineer or how to gain more experience as an engineer.

 

And I completely had forgotten to. So to talk about contributing, to opens, or at least elaborate more on contributing to open source, but it's definitely a really good avenue just to kind of. You know, grow, grow your skills. All right. Well that concludes our conversation with Chad. Uh, folks, if you want to catch the full episode, the full conversation and participate, this happens live every Wednesday at lunchtime Pacific, um, on Twitter spaces.

 

So twitter.com/ . And I do encourage you if you've got any sort of wisdom or knowledge, or you've just learned something that maybe you have more questions about. Follow Chad on Twitter. So Chad underscore our underscore Stewart, uh, hit him up. Tell him you appreciated the conversation to hit him up in the DM.

 

Uh, I believe his DMS are. Now, if you have a developing story that you'd like to share on this podcast hit me up. My DMS are also open. I'd love to talk to you. I'd love to learn about how you became a developer and, uh, I'll see you the next one.